Comments on: The Language of Totalitarianism http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/ Toujours Le Meme Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:34:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Tin Drummer http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3068 Tin Drummer Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:48:13 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3068 <i>I agree, there is little hope of the proletariat ever rising in the near future. Their aspirations have been managed far too closely, even the supposedly politically active have no idea of the degree of control which they are subject to. </i> Amen to that, except that we are all the proles: remember that the inner party was c5% and the outer, c10% or something - leaving everyone else as proles. That's us, whether we work in the City or on the bins. Pornosec, anyone? I agree, there is little hope of the proletariat ever rising in the near future. Their aspirations have been managed far too closely, even the supposedly politically active have no idea of the degree of control which they are subject to.

Amen to that, except that we are all the proles: remember that the inner party was c5% and the outer, c10% or something - leaving everyone else as proles. That’s us, whether we work in the City or on the bins.

Pornosec, anyone?

]]> By: Wolfie http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3067 Wolfie Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:59:26 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3067 I agree, there is little hope of the proletariat ever rising in the near future. Their aspirations have been managed far too closely, even the supposedly politically active have no idea of the degree of control which they are subject to. Sophia, the issue of labour exploitation is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. This rabbit hole goes far deeper than that. I agree, there is little hope of the proletariat ever rising in the near future. Their aspirations have been managed far too closely, even the supposedly politically active have no idea of the degree of control which they are subject to.

Sophia, the issue of labour exploitation is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. This rabbit hole goes far deeper than that.

]]> By: Tin Drummer http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3060 Tin Drummer Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:34:07 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3060 Actually O Brien was right: the proles would never rise up. They were systematically excluded from political society by a self-selecting elite and were fed a diet of cheap pornography, crap housing and gambling. and the government convinced them they were at war with invisible, but deadly enemies. so no change there, then. Actually O Brien was right: the proles would never rise up. They were systematically excluded from political society by a self-selecting elite and were fed a diet of cheap pornography, crap housing and gambling. and the government convinced them they were at war with invisible, but deadly enemies.

so no change there, then.

]]> By: Sophia http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3028 Sophia Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:53:00 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3028 Wolfie, I agree. But there is another problem: the underground economy in our developped countries. My brother was telling me last days that in his own sector, which is house supplies and decoration, millions are exchanged outside government supervision every week-end in the local market where, among other places, he sells his products, but the government is happy with it as long as the money stays in the country, profits the economy and boosts job figures. I guess it is the same for the industry who employs cheap labour from immigration. Look at France for example, with all his big manners and DNA tests introduced in the legislation for family regroupements, Sarkozy is still short on his objectives to crack down on immigration, and I bet he will never meet them. Wolfie,

I agree. But there is another problem: the underground economy in our developped countries. My brother was telling me last days that in his own sector, which is house supplies and decoration, millions are exchanged outside government supervision every week-end in the local market where, among other places, he sells his products, but the government is happy with it as long as the money stays in the country, profits the economy and boosts job figures. I guess it is the same for the industry who employs cheap labour from immigration. Look at France for example, with all his big manners and DNA tests introduced in the legislation for family regroupements, Sarkozy is still short on his objectives to crack down on immigration, and I bet he will never meet them.

]]> By: Wolfie http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3022 Wolfie Sun, 25 Nov 2007 10:33:20 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3022 True Sophia, but the migrations which happened during the industrial revolutions occurred to supply the factories of economies growing sharply due to new technology. This time around the economies that they are fleeing to are contracting, and there lies a serious problem. True Sophia, but the migrations which happened during the industrial revolutions occurred to supply the factories of economies growing sharply due to new technology. This time around the economies that they are fleeing to are contracting, and there lies a serious problem.

]]> By: Sophia http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3019 Sophia Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:55:10 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3019 I see immigration from underdeveloped countries to developped ones as a continuum of an earlier one that happened in western countries, immigration from rural areas to urban areas. In a globalised and economically open world, the reasons are all the same. The problem will be a challenge and need to be adressed seriously by all parties but it shouldn't be used to score politcal goals against opponents, either to gather votes from people who are scraed from immigration or from so-called liberals, and that's we have been witnessing. I realised that socialism failed because it did not adress the needs of people living in urban areas in terms of infrastructure and freedom of movement. But I witnessed Cuban socialism at its best in rural areas where people lived in a sort of equilibrium with nature and depended only on themselves and little on everybody else. It is the same for Neoliberalism, it needs big concentrations of people living in urban centers in order to open the way for more needs and enlarge indefinitely the market. However, this scheme also has its limits and they are the limits of Neoliberalism itself. Immigrants in the system are nothing else than a tool, deprived in their own underdevelopped countries froim basic needs by multinational corporations ( most African countries are full of natural goods and resources but in some way their citizens never get to benefit from this thanks to their corrupt leaders and multinational corporations), they are drawn into urban centers of developed countries in order to feed the same system that robbed them and robbed its own citizens. I see immigration from underdeveloped countries to developped ones as a continuum of an earlier one that happened in western countries, immigration from rural areas to urban areas. In a globalised and economically open world, the reasons are all the same. The problem will be a challenge and need to be adressed seriously by all parties but it shouldn’t be used to score politcal goals against opponents, either to gather votes from people who are scraed from immigration or from so-called liberals, and that’s we have been witnessing. I realised that socialism failed because it did not adress the needs of people living in urban areas in terms of infrastructure and freedom of movement. But I witnessed Cuban socialism at its best in rural areas where people lived in a sort of equilibrium with nature and depended only on themselves and little on everybody else. It is the same for Neoliberalism, it needs big concentrations of people living in urban centers in order to open the way for more needs and enlarge indefinitely the market. However, this scheme also has its limits and they are the limits of Neoliberalism itself. Immigrants in the system are nothing else than a tool, deprived in their own underdevelopped countries froim basic needs by multinational corporations ( most African countries are full of natural goods and resources but in some way their citizens never get to benefit from this thanks to their corrupt leaders and multinational corporations), they are drawn into urban centers of developed countries in order to feed the same system that robbed them and robbed its own citizens.

]]> By: Welshcakes Limoncello http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3013 Welshcakes Limoncello Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:56:22 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3013 Well argued, Wolfie. You are right: what should be a debate about "supply and demand" cannot get off the ground because people are immediately labelled. That seems an extraordinary thing for Heseltine to have said. Well argued, Wolfie. You are right: what should be a debate about “supply and demand” cannot get off the ground because people are immediately labelled. That seems an extraordinary thing for Heseltine to have said.

]]> By: Wolfie http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3012 Wolfie Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:44:45 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3012 Well done Phil, I stand corrected. You're absolutely right, I forgot about that. Well done Phil, I stand corrected. You’re absolutely right, I forgot about that.

]]> By: Phil A http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3011 Phil A Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:38:38 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3011 Wolfie, If I recall correctly Cromwell didn’t die vilified. He died in full power and control. The reigns of power passed briefly to his son who couldn’t hack it. So the movers and shakers thought "We need a Proterctor/King" - and what do you know. Ta-Dah A Kingdom again. <i>Then</i> Cromwell was vilified, dug up and beheaded. Wolfie, If I recall correctly Cromwell didn’t die vilified. He died in full power and control.

The reigns of power passed briefly to his son who couldn’t hack it. So the movers and shakers thought “We need a Proterctor/King” - and what do you know. Ta-Dah A Kingdom again.

Then Cromwell was vilified, dug up and beheaded.

]]> By: Wolfie http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3010 Wolfie Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:23:11 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3010 Stef, Agreed but I don’t think such cynicism is part of the government plan, but its part of someone's plan and its only a matter of time. Phil, Precisely. City, Doesn't the Cromwellian revolution count? The interesting thing about that war was that eventually the Monarchy was restored and Cromwell died vilified. I think people right now would also like to see more balance in our power structures but its going to have to get a lot worse before it gets to that. James, I don’t think its true to say that cleverness destroys itself, I think the problem is that cleverness gets complacent and forgets how destructive and avaricious ignorance is. Every empire neglected the growing cancer within prior to their fall, when the next challenge presented itself it was already too late. Getting a sense of "end of Empire" around here? Stef,

Agreed but I don’t think such cynicism is part of the government plan, but its part of someone’s plan and its only a matter of time.

Phil,

Precisely.

City,

Doesn’t the Cromwellian revolution count? The interesting thing about that war was that eventually the Monarchy was restored and Cromwell died vilified. I think people right now would also like to see more balance in our power structures but its going to have to get a lot worse before it gets to that.

James,

I don’t think its true to say that cleverness destroys itself, I think the problem is that cleverness gets complacent and forgets how destructive and avaricious ignorance is. Every empire neglected the growing cancer within prior to their fall, when the next challenge presented itself it was already too late. Getting a sense of “end of Empire” around here?

]]> By: jameshigham http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3009 jameshigham Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:02:41 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3009 It seems to me that this has become not about race or immigration at all but about a new political language of totalitarianism where everything is reduced into a vapid and meaningless discourse in a narrow political grammar with the slightest deviation from the script resulting in political ruination or humiliation. Like some mindless marketing seminar fundamental issues are reduced to empty slogans such as “stakeholder”, “community”, “diversity” and “multiculturalism”. Precisely. It seems to me that this has become not about race or immigration at all but about a new political language of totalitarianism where everything is reduced into a vapid and meaningless discourse in a narrow political grammar with the slightest deviation from the script resulting in political ruination or humiliation. Like some mindless marketing seminar fundamental issues are reduced to empty slogans such as “stakeholder”, “community”, “diversity” and “multiculturalism”.

Precisely.

]]> By: cityunslicker http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3007 cityunslicker Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:32:18 +0000 http://blog.twowolves.co.uk/2007/11/11/the-language-of-totalitarianism/#comment-3007 Just because we have never had a revolution in the UK in the past is no gaurantee that we will not have one in the future. Just because we have never had a revolution in the UK in the past is no gaurantee that we will not have one in the future.

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